Legislature(1995 - 1996)
05/03/1996 03:30 PM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE BILL 98
"An Act making changes related to the aid to families
with dependent children program, the Medicaid program,
the general relief assistance program, and the adult
public assistance program; directing the Department of
Health and Social Services to apply to the federal
government for waivers to implement the changes where
necessary; relating to eligibility for permanent fund
dividends of certain individuals who receive state
assistance, to notice requirements applicable to the
dividend program; and providing for an effective date."
Co-Chair Hanley explained Amendment #1, 9-LS0692\L.9,
Lauterback, 5/2/96. [Copy on file]. Amendment #1 would
remove crew members licenses from the list. He noted that
those licenses could be purchased at locations such as Fred
Meyers and that it would be unreasonable to require those
types business to provide a Child Support Enforcement Agency
(CSEA) check before a license was issued. The amendment had
been submitted by Representative Phillips.
KEVIN BROOKS, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES,
DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, advised that the Department has
approximately 400 vendors who sell crew licenses throughout
the State and that approximately four thousand licenses are
sold throughout the year.
Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to adopt Amendment #1. [Copy on
file]. There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #2 which would
allow victims of domestic violence to seek public assistance
to aid them to establish a life free of violence whenever
necessary. [Copy on file]. She maintained that assistance
should be available whenever needed in a time of "crisis"
regardless of the time limits.
JIM NORDLUND, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, stated that the
amendment would amend two sections of the bill. The first
one would adjust the two year time limit within the waiver
section. Under federal law, that would be an option
available to individual states.
Representative Brown noted that one of the reasons that
abused women stay in abusive situations, is that they lack
adequate financial resources to leave. She suggested that
there should be a "showing" that the need existed in order
to qualify for the funding. Co-Chair Hanley expressed
concern that a woman could try to use a circumstance from an
"old" abusive situation. He suggested that a time limit be
placed on the matter.
Representative Brown suggested amending the language
following "believe", deleting "has been" and inserting "is
or recently has been" on line 4 and line 13 of Amendment #2.
There being NO OBJECTION, it was changed. There being NO
OBJECTION to the amended amendment, it was adopted.
Representative Brown spoke to Amendment #3. [Copy on file].
The amendment would address the confidentiality section and
a fraud inquiry based on information received by a
legislator on a person. The attempt would more clearly
target the kinds of information which would appropriately
disclose that situation.
Mr. Nordlund explained that the legislator could not report
back to the person who made the complaint with the
information received from the Department. That is how the
bill is currently constructed and would not be affected by
the amendment.
In response to Representative Parnell, Mr. Nordlund spoke to
the portion of the amendment on line 11 & 12.
Representative Parnell MOVED to divide the question. Co-
Chair Hanley pointed out that the amendment had not yet been
moved. Representative Parnell WITHDREW the MOTION.
Representative Brown MOVED to delete lines 11 - 13 of the
amendment. There being NO OBJECTION, it was deleted.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #3.
SENATOR LYDA GREEN spoke to the frustration on the part of
legislators trying to seek information for constituents on
inquires concerning persons who are eligible for public
assistance. That constituent would not be assured that
there had been a follow-up. The original language could
achieve that.
(Tape Change, HFC 96-162, Side 2).
Senator Green commented that not every inquiry would have a
fraud basis and that the amendment would narrow it. She did
not think that the amendment was broad enough to get the
information needed and that the standard would be "very"
high for a legislator who had the information.
Mr. Nordlund understood the language of the amendment to be
limited to potential violations. Co-Chair Hanley added, it
would allow the legislator to request a fraud inquiry.
Representative Brown questioned other circumstances.
Co-Chair Hanley reiterated that the legislature would not
require a fraud investigation. It is stated that
regulations must provide that the results of a fraud inquiry
shall be disclosed. Mr. Nordlund responded that if any
person suspected fraud, the Department would then be
required to investigate.
CURTIS LOMAS, WELFARE REFORM OFFICER, DIVISION OF PUBLIC
ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, stated
under current law, the standard response as to whether
someone is or is not on public assistance would be protected
information. Under current law, that would be the response
that a legislator would receive. Whenever there is a claim
that someone is suspected of receiving benefits
fraudulently, the Division receives that information as a
signal to do a fraud report.
Co-Chair Hanley stated that information regarding a person
being or not being on public assistance should not be
confidential. Representative Therriault suggested adding
language "the results of an inquiry or investigation".
Representative Brown recommended substituting that language
with "the results of inquiry based on a possible fraud".
Senator Green thought that language could limit the scope.
Representative Therriault disagreed. He thought that all
information would be available from the results of a tip-
off, thus providing legislators information regarding
investigations to base public policy calls on.
Representative Brown stated that it was not appropriate for
a legislator have access to confidential information without
a purpose to be served by it. She asked if a person on
public assistance had the power to include their legislator
in access to their own records. Mr. Lomas agreed they
could.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt the amended Amendment
inquiry regarding possible fraud, based on information
received by a legislator, based on a particular person".
Representative Mulder OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Navarre, Therriault.
OPPOSED: Martin, Mulder, Parnell, Hanley.
Representatives Kelly, Kohring and Foster were not present
for the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (4-4).
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #4. [Copy on
file]. Mr. Nordlund stated that the amendment would make
the bill in line with federal law. Co-Chair Hanley
OBJECTED.
Senator Green advised that the wording of the referenced
section had been drafted carefully and she requested that it
not be adjusted. Representative Brown refuted, the new
language would only be used if there was a high unemployment
rate. The proposed language would provide for a rateable
reduction to recipients benefits.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Navarre, Grussendorf, Brown.
OPPOSED: Martin, Mulder, Parnell, Therriault,
Kelly, Hanley.
Representatives Kohring and Foster were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION FAILED (3-6).
Representative Brown spoke to Amendment #5 to page 25 of the
HESS version. [Copy on file]. The change would be to line
28, section (b), which would allow Native organizations to
authorize the transfer of the State's share of funds
appropriated for that purpose.
Co-Chair Hanley questioned if federal law provided the
authority to Native organizations to take control of the
JOBS program. Representative Brown pointed out that the
Legislature would still need to appropriate funds for that
purpose. Mr. Lomas explained that section of the bill is
the comprehensive reform section, and that it presumes
passage of the reform legislation. It is modeled from
language within federal law. The $944 thousand dollars was
requested in the budget, currently is a fiscal note to be
used for the Native JOBS program. Under federal reform, the
JOBS program will no longer exist. It has been replaced
with the new block grant program.
Co-Chair Hanley noted that he wanted the language to be
tight enough in order to address the specific funding
purposes. Mr. Nordlund countered that the language in
reference is not about the JOBS program; it is about state
matching of a Native organization providing the entire
program. That language was proposed by the Tanana Chiefs
Council in a statement of intent. The Department would like
the Native program and the federal program to run comparable
benefits.
Co-Chair Hanley reiterated his concern with the flexibility
of the language and the implications it would provide.
Senator Green stated that the main purpose of the original
language was to give the Department authority to plan with
the Native organizations. Following implementation of the
new programs, it would be in the State's best interest to
have a consistent program.
Co-Chair Hanley suggested that language was not necessary.
He recommended adding a Letter of Intent. Representative
Brown noted that she would not move the amendment if there
would be a letter of intent.
Representative Therriault MOVED Amendment 6, on page 9, line
30, deleting "or emotional". Senator Green noted that
federal language addresses a persons physical health and
safety and also emotional and mental health conditions. She
recommended that language remain in the bill.
Mr. Lomas added, that provision had been included in the
Governor's legislation and was included in HB 78 last year.
The entire section addresses minor parents living with
family or in some other appropriate setting. There have
been times when the minor claims that the home is not
suitable or safe either for physical or psychological
reasons because of a history of abuse. He added, the
Department will not allow a frivolous claim of emotional
harm. There will need to be documentation of problems
existing at that home to allow for the exemption.
Representative Therriault thought if problems did exist,
they would jeopardize the youths physical health also. Mr.
Nordlund elaborated, situations exist where there is serious
psychological stress for minors. The Division of Family and
Youth Services (DFYS) should be able to take these
circumstances into consideration.
(Tape Change, HFC 96-163, Side 1)
Representative Grussendorf pointed out that emotional stress
can have a serious affect on the minor.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to delete
"emotional," Amendment 6.
IN FAVOR: Mulder, Therriault, Kelly, Hanley
OPPOSED: Martin, Navarre, Parnell, Brown, Grussendorf
Co-Chair Foster and Representative Kohring were absent for
the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (4-5).
Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to adopt Amendment 7 (copy on file).
He noted that the amendment would delete "day care
assistance and" from the title. There being NO OBJECTION,
it was so ordered.
Co-Chair Hanley referred to the fiscal notes. He noted that
there are two fiscal note sets, one set each for the
comprehensive and waiver provisions. The fiscal notes for
the waiver provisions would not take effect if federal
reform takes place. He explained that the net general fund
match in the comprehensive set is $3.170 million dollars.
The net general fund match is $3 million dollars for the
waiver provision. Some program receipts would be collected
to offset costs.
Representative Brown asked what the impact would be if the
legislation passed without adoption of the fiscal notes.
Mr. Lomas stated that the Department would have a great
amount of difficulty if fiscal notes were not adopted.
Caseload reductions would be in danger without day care and
work assistance funds. He explained that areas noted by
asterisks are not currently in the budget. He emphasized
that the Department requests that funding be restored. He
noted that the Department needs $2 million dollars in
federal authorization, $1 million unrestricted general fund
dollars and $2 million dollars in increased child support
enforcement program receipts for a total of $5 million
dollars.
Mr. Nordlund added that the two sets of fiscal notes are
very close.
Co-Chair Hanley summarized that the Department realized a
savings in FY 96. The Department wished to reinvest the FY
96 savings in FY 97.
Mr. Lomas explained that reinvestment funds from FY 97 is
the requested funding source for the $2 million dollars
shown in both provisions. He observed that child support
collections in FY 97 were underestimated. He noted that
some provisions do not require either a waiver or federal
law change. He emphasized that 13 data processing positions
would be lost without the reinvestment funds. He maintained
that additional money for work programs and child care is
necessary to put additional people into work activities.
Co-Chair Hanley noted that the Governor may not support the
legislation without funding for the fiscal notes.
Mr. Nordlund emphasized the need for the child care and job
training funding.
Representative Martin MOVED to report HCS CSSB 98 (FIN) out
of Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
HCS CSSB 98 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendation" and with nine Department of Health & Social
Services fiscal impact notes for the Comprehensive Plan; and
with ten fiscal impact notes pertaining to the Comprehensive
Plan; one by the Department of Revenue, 4/22/96, one by the
Department of Education, 4/22/96, two by the Department of
Labor, 4/22/96, one by the Department of Public Safety,
4/22/96, three by the Department of Commerce and Economic
Development, 4/22/96, and two by the Department of Fish and
Game, 4/22/96; and with a zero fiscal note by the Department
of Health & Social Services; or with eight fiscal impact
notes pertaining to the Waiver Plan from the Department of
Health & Social Services.
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